Friday, April 17, 2009

Final Kite Runner Fishbowl Discussion

Enjoy your last discussion of The Kite Runner. If you haven't gotten into a hotseat yet, today is your last chance! As always, try to bring in textual passages when applicable.

105 comments:

Aaron H. said...

But isn't Raymon Andrews telling Amir that he can't get Sohrab out of the country because of all these issues. So isn't Andrews helping instead of giving them false hope.

Emma said...

I agree with Nile he looks at Sohrab as his son. He has become really close to him and treats him like he is his own kid. I think that that is why he was really angry with the guy at the adoption center.

ellenj said...

I think that it is a good lesson for Amir that he can control his life, even if if people like Raymond Andrews or Assef stand in his way. And i agree with Jason that him realizing this leads to him making more positive decisions.

AprilH said...

Aaron--I don't really think he is helping them because their main thing is to get out of where they are. So if he can't help them they are going to go to someone else who can.

KatieW said...

I agree with Jason when he mentioned that throughout the whole book Amir has had control over his own life. At the beginning he made some bad, but towards the end he starts to realize what he can do to fix the bad choice (or help) he had made and this helps him learn to love his life more and see it through a different persepective.

Mark W said...

I think that the characters have control because in the beginning of the book, Amir is controlling his own decisions, which affects his life. He doesn't have control over everything, but he has some control.

Macy said...

Amir looks at Sorab as a son and treats him as his own. He cares for him so much, since he couldn't have a child. That is why Amir was mad the the adoption place.

RachelK said...

Aaron--I like that question. What I think is that Andrews could be doing this for the good of Amir and Sohrab. Maybe to keep Sohrab at the orphanage can make Amir stronger by not just getting things given to him to make it easier.

samh said...

I agree with Nicole that they have free will over their actions. They don't, however have control over how other people affect their lives. It is up to them to control what they can and control their choices.

annies said...

I think Assef and Raymond Andrews are both factors to how Amir's, life turns out. It actually wasn't them controlling Amir's life, it was them doing things that Amir could either work around or let it ruin his life.

Emma said...

I agree with Jason, Amir has had control over his own life all along. He has made poor choices throughout most of his life and begins to try and change that. He obviously wasn't happy with who he was so he finally made the decision to change that. So he starts making better decisions to become a better person and to make up for the past.

allison t said...

I don't think that Amir thinks before he acts and that comes back to bite him. I think he realizes that he needs to think about his actions and the outcome of them later in his life and he tries to change.

Macy said...

I agree with Mark. Amir controls what he does and what decisions he makes. So he is controlling.

jamieG said...

does Amir understand the impact of his own coices?


I think that over time, Amir is learning what effect his choices have. When Amir is with Sorhab I think he sees more and more how he should have treated Hassan, He gives Sorhab the respect that he should have givin Hassan.

Liap said...

I don't think that Amir realized what an effect his actions made when he was younger, such as not helping Hassan; but now that he's older I think he has learned the impact of his actions on the life of Sorhab.

KaleighD said...

I agree with Jake, I dont think that Amir ever realized that he was in a way tormenting Hassan. He saw the way that many people treated the Hazaras and thought that's how he should treat Hassan. It wasn't until he grew up and realized that what he has been doing was wrong.

Macy said...

I agree with Emma. He is regretting his past desicions. For the future, I think he will really focus on not only thinking about himself, and actually show compassion towards others.

KatieW said...

I agree with Nicole when she says that the lack of affection Amir got from Baba probably affected some of the choices he made. He needed more attention,and he never knew how to handle tough situations in a mature way, maybe he didn't feel comfortable enough telling Baba what had happened in the alley because he was scared of what could also happen because of that.

annies said...

I agree with Allie when she says that Amir is a little kid, so he really only has his best interest in mind. I also agree with Nicole when she says that Amir also didn't really have a father figure in his life so he has learned to watch out for only himself.

ellenj said...

I agree with Meghan that there is no set age for kids to start caring for others. Even though he did not have the love of his dad, I wish Amir could have been able to respect Hassan and care about him, because Hassan clearly cares for Amir.

elizabeth k said...

I also think that Amir loves Sohrab as his own son. he just wants everything to be perfect with him. he wants to treat him better than he treated Hassan and wants to redeem himself.

samh said...

Allie made a very good point that Amir is a little boy and he is not going to think about other people as much as someone who is older would. Children care about others but they don't think to focus on others because they are pretty self centered. And like Nicole and Jason said, Amir didn't have his fathers affection for so long that it is hard for him to know how to care for other people when he doesn't feel like he was cared for.

RachelK said...

I agree with Jake. When you're young, you make stupid decisions, you do stupid things, and at the time, it's hard to realize how wrong it was. But when you're older, like Amir, things that you've done become reality and there is finally the realization of what things were done wrong.

KaleighD said...

I agree with Jason, Amir was never showed the true way to treat others. The way you learn stuff when you are little depends on what your parents teach you and now Amir has to learn from himself rather than what Baba showed him.

Aaron H. said...

Jamie- I agree. Amir is relizing how he should have treated Hassan.I think Amir views Sohrab as a second chance.

annies said...

I agree with Nicole when she says that Amir has finally changed and has finally redeemed himself through Sohrab. When he said, "for you a thousand times over," he was finally as selfless as Hassan used to be.

AprilH said...

I agree with Lia. I don't think Amir realized the effects of what he had done as a child because no one told him it was wrong and he never thought he was doing anything wrong. He had the higher power and thought that was how he was supposed to be treating Hassan. Now that he is older he has learned about things more and has learned about what he did in the past was wrong. He is learning from his past mistakes.

Emma said...

I think that Amir allways has cared about other people even as a child. He was just scared and didn't know what to do. Even though he made mistakes, as a kid it was probably hard for him to express what he is feeling. Especially after whitnessing someone close to him being raped. that probably scarred him and he didn't know how to react or how to let out his feelings. He was probably tramatized and just didn't know what to do.

adamc said...

i don't think that there is a set age to start caring for each other I think that you should always care for people no matter what age you so Amir should have always been nice to Hassan.

KatieW said...

I think that Amir did change because of Baba but not in a good way. After he realized that Baba had made mistakes too and had taken it out on him, he wanted to make sure that he did not treat the people he loved like that and make sure they know they are loved by him. I think that is what really changed him.

annies said...

I also think that Amir wants to be a good example for Sohrab by being selfless and loving him in a way Baba never did.

elizabeth k said...

I agree with Allie. He is a little kid. He has his best intentions in mind. but he is a little kid. you cant expect too much from him.

Liap said...

I think that Baba was a huge role model for Amir, because he was a good man, and he was extremely strong. His dad was the perfect picture of an Afghani man and Amir wanted to be like that.

BrianW said...

I agree with Jason about how he shows his emotion in because that was the way he was raised. I also agree with Nile , Amir felt jealous of Hassan and Ali’s relationship compared to his and Baba’s relationship.

Macy said...

I agree with Rachel and Jake. When you are young you don't know right from wrong. You only choose the most fun or more exciting decision. You don't base it off of how it will affect you or others. But when you grow up like Amir things change. You begin to regret what has happened because of a stupid decision.

allison t said...

I disagree with what Allie said about Amir not knowing any other way of showing compassion. Just because his dad didn't show it in a "normal" way doesn't mean he wasn't exposed to "normal" compassion. Both Hassan and Rahim Khan showed Amir love in ways that Baba didn't. He knows how to treat others.

Aaron H. said...

Adam- I agree, but children have to mature into these things.

annies said...

I think he is becoming a character that is similar to Hassan, like Ms. Leclaire said, because Amir is finally becoming okay with the fact that Hassan was more than a servant all along, even though he treated him like a brother but treated him like a Hazara when he was talking to the man in the bazaar and he almost said it to Assef

RachelK said...

Yea, it really does matter how somebody's raised to reflect on how they act towards others. If Baba had been more of a postive influence on Amir and talked with him more and taught him good values, MAYBE things would've been a little different.

AprilH said...

I think he has grown to be more like Hassan. But he is still his own person. Amir has become more compassionate and is learning how to love and care for people. Amir has never given up hope with Sohrab. Amir also sees that everything Hassan did for him he should do in return.

ellenj said...

I agree with Nile that Sohrab is alot like Amir right now, He doesn't have his father anymore and so much trauma has happened that it is making stay quiet. I also think it's similar how Amir and Sohrab have both lost so much but they are trying to get through it in America

KatieW said...

I think that Amir has grown to be more like Hassan. Like Mrs. Leclaire said, there were a bunch of allusions at the end of the book (like Amir's cut lip and him needing to find Sohrab)that might be connections to this. Amir realizes how much of a good person Hassan was and how he should have looked up to him instead of Baba all of the time because Hassan was the one giving him the most affection but he never appreciated it.

Mark W said...

I agree with Nile because Sohrab has now been accustomed to Amir's habits. I think that he will become more like Amir in personality, but he looks like Hassan.

elizabeth k said...

I agree with Annie when she says Amir wants to be a good example for Sohrab. i think that he truely cares about him and wants to be a good "dad" for him.

Emma said...

I think that Amir has become a little like Hassan. I think that since Hassan was his brother and his best friend he is really upset and his way of holding onto Hassan is to be like him. I think that he wants to be like Hassan. As a kid it drove him crazy how much of a good person Hassan was and as a child I think he was kind of jealous because he wasn't a good as Hassan. He allways tormented Hassan because he was trying to get him to react and get mad, but he never did. So now that he's older I think he may have realized that and wanted to be a good person just like Hassan.

adamc said...

Just cause they have to mature into things that doesn't mean you have an excuse to be mean to people especially the Amir was to Hassan.

samh said...

To me, Amir has definitely grown into a character more like Hassan. Not only did he gain a physical attribute of Hassan with the scar on his lip, but he also says "for you a thousand times over" as Hassan used to say. On top of these small things it is also obvious that Amir is much more compassionate and kind now. He is caring for Sohrab, and like Dillon said, it is kind of like since Hassan treated Amir so well for so long, now Amir is paying him back by caring for his son.

Aaron H. said...

Rachel- Baba did teach Amir good values. Amir just chickened out at the wrong time.

annies said...

I don't think Hassan told Sohrab about the rape scene because Sohrab would probably be mad at Hassan for everything that happened, and for not helping his father while his life completley changed. But since Hassan was a forgiving person, maybe Sohrab was too.

ellenj said...

I agree with Rachel that one person can have a really big impact, for example Baba not really loving Amir had a major affect on him, and Hassan had a really good affect on Amir and in the end taught him how to live a good life, many years later. So i think that because Amir knows this that he wants to do the best he can for Sohrab.

RachelK said...

It seems that in Amir's early life, like Macy said, kids do what they want, and most of the time, don't care about what happens to others. Some may see something and not know that it's bad, kind of like the rape. It's cool how when Amir's older, he comes to respect Hassan and Sohrab more.:)

jamieG said...

I think Sohrab is alot liek his father, and he should be. Sorhab is afraid of Amir because of the way he treated Amir. He also just does what Hassan did when they where kids and that was give into Amir.

AprilH said...

I think the author has the suicide take place in the bathtub because the bathroom is one of the most private places in the hotel room. Sohrab also probably thought that since he takes really long bathes Amir wouldn't think anything of it.

RachelK said...

Yea, Aaron, I have to agree with what you said. Amir was young, and sometimes, the good values that Baba taught him just disappeared, then some wrong, kid-like decisions were made.

Emma said...

I agree with Nile, Sohrab had been talking about feeling dirty because of what the Taliban would do to him. Also he allways took long baths and i think that symbolizes how he is trying to clean away the sin. So maybe he thought if he commited suicide in the bathtub he would die being clean of sin.

Mark W said...

I think that the author placed Hassan's suicide in the bathtub because he feels dirty. I also agree with Jake because the monster in the lake could also refer to the bathtub suicide attempt.

jamieG said...

when you read the rape scene, you know for a fact that Amir thinks it is bad. Even though they are "kids" there not dumb. Amir knew what he could have done. I think that at the time, he was using "being young" as an exsuse.

michellev said...

I agree with Nile that Sorhab tried to commit suicide in the bathtub because he said he feels dirty, so being in a bathtub is a way to like "clean".

KatieW said...

A connection from the movie Slumdog Millionaire to The Kite Runner would be attempting suicide in a bathtub. In the Kite Runner, Sohrab tries to commit suicide in the bathtub maybe because of the fact that cleanliness had been mentioned. In slumdog millionaire, Jamil's brother pretty much sets himself up for suicide in the bathtub after he kills the man who is ruining a lot of things. His death ends up ruining a lot of money because that is what he filled the bathtub up with but I never really understood what the money signifys.

samh said...

There is a connection between this book and Slumdog Millionaire in the case of Sohrab's suicide attemp taking place in a bathtub. In The Kite Runner, Sohrab attempts suicide in a bathtub. In Slumdog Millionaire, Jamil's brother in a way sets himself up for his death in a bathtub aswell. He takes all the money and places it in the bathtub and lays in it when he is killed.

Macy said...

He definitely was not a hero in the beginning of the book, because he didn't help his friend in need. But maybe he could be considered a hero at the end becuase he saves Sorab. He is a villian and a hero. But I think every person is like this.

ellenj said...

I think that Amir did a really good thing for saving Sohrab, like Jake said. He made a promise he didn't know he could keep and then he made the choice to TELL sohrab right when he sees that he might have to break it. I think that this would be a time where he should have not told the whole truth or not givin the information since Sohrab didn't ask, to protect him. Sohrab is just a kid and Amir is causing him to want to kill himself by telling him right then.

BrianW said...

I wouldn’t called Amir a hero because even though he saved Sohrab’s life but he put Sohrab in that position in the first place by making Hassan And Ali move out.

RachelK said...

Jamie, I do agree with you now that Amir did know what he could do for Hassan, but he did use "being young" as an excuse he thought was good enough.

KaleighD said...

I don't think that Amir is a hero because even though he saves sohrab. I think he saved him just because he felt like he owed it to Hassan and because he thinks that it will clear his concience. I don't think he's a hero because I don't think that one right can make up for many more wrongs.

AprilH said...

I agree with Nicole when she says there is a hero in everyone. In ways people are heros. There is always something that you do that is right. You will make mistakes but you will learn from them.

ellenj said...

I also agree with Brian that Amir isn't a hero really, he is just finally redeeming himself for the horrible decisions he made a really long time ago. He is not going above and beyond, he is just trying to get to the level of "goodness" that normal people have

samh said...

I agree with everything the inner circle has been saying. There is always a hero and a villan in every story and somehow the two relate or have something in common. The support of the hero or villan all depends on perspective. There are people who want to support the hero for what they may think is right or worng, but in the end, it doesn't matter who your support because everyone knows the difference between right and wrong.

RachelK said...

I agree with April and Nicole how there is a hero in everyone. Everyone does have the potential to do good things, and ALL heroes mess up at some point.

KatieW said...

I agree with the inner circle when they are talking about how some of the evil guys in movies and stories start out trying to be good but they aren't successful in that so they go to the other side. A good example was the Incredibles. Also, this happens in the real world too when Hitler was seen as a hero to the Nazis and German people who hated the Jews, but the rest of the world could see this was bad, and then everything crumbled from there for Hitler and the Nazis.

alenav said...

I think that saying Amir is a hero is a little much. He is his own hero in his own life. Like it was said he fulfilled his destiny and went through what he went through to get there. But in itself I do not think that he became a hero.

Emma said...

I agree with Nicole, There is a hero and a villian in every person. A connection to this would be in the movie Unbreakable, one of the main characters was trying to find a hero who is the opposite of him. He is breakable, like glass so he sets up axcidents to occur(train crashes, plain crashes, etc.)so that he could find a hero who is "unbreakable" so that they can work together to save people. Even though he knows what he is doing is wrong, to him he has good intents. But in the end he ends up being the villian. I think that Amir ends up being more of a hero but it still doesn't make up for all of his wrongs.

adamc said...

I think that everyone is a hero its just whether they make the choice to do the right thing and be the hero.

jamieG said...

I agree with sam. Heros and villans are not meant to be determined by the hero/villan them selves. That is determined by what people know about that person and where they want to put them.

AprilH said...

I agree with Brian and Ellen. I don't think Amir is a hero. He has done things in his life that he is still guilty about. Amir is starting to "be good again" and working up to being a good person. Sohrab is Amir's way to be good again and treat Sohrab with respect the way Hassan had treated Amir.

alenav said...

Every hero does something bad throughout there lifetime as well. When a "hero" is trying to do something good, there is always a point where he does something bad and sometimes ends up unhappy with his decision. But a villian constantly does bad things to acheive good, or good in that ones mindset. Either way a hero and a villian are equal in doing things that are not accepted, the only difference is what they are trying to acheive.

Aaron H. said...

I agree with you Adam. Everyone can be a hero it just depends on their choices

elizabeth k said...

i agree with adam to a point. i think that everyone has the chance to be a hero but not everyone is one, but they can ruin it with the choices that they make.

Liap said...

I think Amir was laughing when Assef beat him up because he had too much pride to let Assef get to him. He didn't want to give Assef the satisfaction.

allison t said...

Every hero and villan does what they have to do to get what they think is right. Though their perspectives of what is right may be different, they are both just trying to do what they think is best.

Aaron H. said...

Make choices that you wont regrete later.

annies said...

The one big thing I take away is that "there is a way to be good again." Which is the motif of redemption.

Mark W said...

All wrong doings can be redeemed.

alenav said...

The part in the book that says that he just experienced the first snowflake melting was very significant. Its the part that he realizes his life will never be the same and that everything has changed.

Macy said...

Don't be selfish and make good decisions.

ellenj said...

The one thing I think the author is trying to teach is respect your friends and yourself. I think that Amir in the story does not respect himself enough to be kind to others, maybe because Baba doesn't seem to respect or love Amir until the end, but I think that Amir needed to understand that Hassan was the best thing he had in his life and he should have respected Hassan and not lied to him, and stood up for him. And then Amir wouldn't be trying to make up for in now, like 20 years later

Jake H said...

One main theme i took from this book was that not everything in life is going to be easy on you. It's a matter of your choices that make a difference on your life. If you take things for granted and treat others without respect, that is what is going to get you behind in life. It is all a matter of what you decide to do when you make a mistake.

KatieW said...

One takeaway from the book that I got was that the person you are normally supposed to look up to won't always be the right one and that the best of friends are also taken advantage of easily.

One question I have had throughout this book is why do they run after flying a kite and where to?

adamc said...

The one thing that I took away from this book is that friendship is the most important thing and never treat your friends bad cause you never know when you might not get a second chance.

samh said...

The thing I took away most from this book is the idea of friendship and loyalty. Amir and Hassan had a rocky relationship when they were younger, but by the end of the book Amir takes in Hassan's son and treats his as his own. When he finally sees the smile on Sohrab's face he is so happy. Amir is loyal to Hassan in taking in Sohrab and caring for him.

AprilH said...

One lesson I will take away from this book is how different friendship can be and what can define family. A question I wonder is: Do you think Sohrab will ever warm-up to Amir again and trust him? and Will he ever talk again?

elizabeth k said...

In this passage I think that Amir realizes that he will do anything for Sohrab and he loves him more than he thought was possible.

Allie~J said...

The one thing I ask is does every action have a consequesnce and if it dies then can yuo redeem yourself for every consequence?

RachelK said...

My one takeaway from this book is learning to discern and get deep into how true a friendship really is and what things make a true friendship. Every good friendship is filled with struggles and mistakes. I fight with my best friend all the time, but we always make up. We learn to talk things through, which I kind of wish Amir had done with Hassan, but it obviously didn't turn out that way.

alenav said...

No matter what you do you can always make up for it and fulfill your destiny.

Shay N said...

The one thing that I got from the book it that you can redeem yourself after a troubled past. Amir did what he could and took Sohrab in as his own.

BrianW said...

My take way from this book is all ways keep your friends as close as you can to them and don’t let it slip away.

Liap said...

One thing that I take away from Kite Runner is the lesson, there is always a way to be good again. I believe that this phrase was what the book was centered around, and this idea came up constantly in the book.

Emma said...

One thing that I learned from The Kite Runner is to not make poor decisions and if you do to apologize and get it off your chest or to admit it. You never know how something will effect you in the future and to be careful of your decisions so that you will have less regrets.

allison t said...

One thing I am going to take away from the book is to tell the truth no matter what. A lie can destroy everything and make things turn out the opposite of the way you want.

JasonV said...

I feel that the one broad theme/ lesson we should take away from this story is the theme of truth. No matter what you do in life, you should always do what is right and just and if you do good things, good things will happen to you. You shouldn't hate because holding a grudge doesn't do anything but drain the life out of you and make you unhappy unneccessarily.

meghank said...

The main thing that I have taken away from this novel is the idea of forgiving but never forgetting. Amir made many mistakes that Hassan forgave him for but Amir never forgave himself and therefore he couldn't live his life freely. As the book went on Amir began to learn that it was okay to forgive himself as long as he learned from his mistakes and never forgot about his past. This is a lesson that I think everyone should live by.

georged said...

In the end of this story, a major theme seemed to be that you can be forgiven for anything. Throughout the book, people do bad things, but are mostly forgiven in the end. Amir does not like what Rahim did, but he does not hate him, Rahim does not judge Amir for what he did. Also, Sohrab seems to actually be thankful for what Amir has done by the very end.

Nicole said...

In pondering the meaning, theme, and what one has taken away from Kite Runner, many answers pop up. "Do the right thing even if it's hard," "any mistake can be forgiven," etc.
However I think my major take away was the revelation that there is a hero and a villian in every person. It wasn't until we started talking about it in the fishbowl that I saw that message clearly.
The story shows Amir through his times of having his villian dominate and his hero take the lead.
It just makes you look at yourself and other's differently in realizing that.

nilec said...

One thing that I took from this book is that, as Afghans say, life goes on. Things will always go wrong at points in life. The key is to find a way through the bad and ultimalty find the good in your life. Along with the good in yourself.