Monday, April 13, 2009

Kite Runner Fishbowl: Chapters 19 and 20


Above is a picture of an orphanage in Afghanistan to help you visualize Chapter 20:


Enjoy your discussion of Chapters 19 and 20. Please remember to bring in passages from the text when possible and to get into a hot seat!
(Picture courtesy of Google Images)

78 comments:

NowlanS said...

Amir is not a true Afghani because he lived in a sheltered world and did not have to live throught the hardships mont Afghanis have gone through. He did not live first hand through Afghanistan. His father kept him from the real Afghanistan. He grew up more American then anything else

RachelK said...

I think Amir is an Afghani is a sense. He wasn't living in poverty or fighting like other people for his country. He is one because he grew up there, but it has a different affect on him when he's there. I agree with Jason when he said that Amir made the choice to go back. He cares about his home country and wants to adopt Hassan's son, so he'd be saving him from all the violence.

Allie~J said...

I think that yes Amir is an afgani but also he may not nessesarily be a TRUE afgani. He didn't go through poverty or war but he still grew up there and was born there. Shouldn't it be like America in the sense that if you are born here then you are an American.

Pye said...

I disagree with Jason, Amir left Afghanistan for 26 years so he can not be considered a native. When things got tough in his country he bailed out even though he isn't a Hazara so there was never really a threat on his life. You can't abandon your people and expect to be accepted 26 years later

Jake H said...

In a way he has lived in poverty in America. He had very little money and he was considered an outsider since he came from Afganistan. Also like Annie said, we are all Americans no matter what.

allison t said...

I think that Amir is a true Afghani. I don't see why he wouldn't be, I mean Afghani isn't defined as poor. After all, he did grow up in Afghanstan. I agree with Jason that he isn't a tourist because he chose to go back. Also I agree with Annie that you don't have to fight for your country to be a citizen, you just have to support it and I think that Amir does support his home country.

Shay N said...

I Think that Amir is a true Afghani because he has lived with Hassan and went through the same struggles that Hassan hsd as a child.

elizabeth k said...

Amir did go through some poverty growing up but not as bad as it would have been if he would have been in Afghanistan the whole time. but when he is in Afghanistan he realizes that he is a true Afghani.

AprilH said...

I think Amir can call himself a true Afghanistan because he grew up there. Like Jason said even though he was a privileged kid he still experienced things like kite running. Also, he experienced bullying and had friendships with other people. Today people who rich in America can still call themselves Americans even though they have more money.

samh said...

I think that Amir is a trye Afghani. He grew up in Afghanistan, he went throught the hardships of life there. I agree with Annie that you don't have to fight for your country to be considered a true citizen. I am still an American and I haven't fought for America. You just need to have pride for your land and support your country.

BrianW said...

I think that he isn’t a true Afghani because he hasn’t supported his country in its troubled times. When the going got hard he fled the country to have a better life.

ddenton76 said...

I think Amir would be considered an afgahni because he was born there and he did live there for most of his younger life so yes I would consider him an afgahni

meghank said...

I think that just because he has not lived the same way as the rest of his people or fought beside them he is still an Afghani. He was still born there and that is his home, he knows what it was like before the war and he is still experiencing life during the war he is just lucky enough to not have to life in bad conditions.

Macy said...

Amir is not a true Afghani because he was a very wealthy boy who got everything he wanted and more. He didn't go throught hardships like other Afgani's.

Jake H said...

I think that it is letting us what is going to happen in the next chapters. I think that his dream is bringing back memories and thorugh the dream he is getting ideas to change his life back to normal...

Pye said...

It is wrong for Amir to take responsibility for Hassan's death. The Taliban's job is to kill Hazaras, Amir leaving when he was a child didn't kill Hassan over 20 years later.

Mark W said...

I agree with Ellen because Hassan is already dead, Amir is taking this dream to an extremity. He probably feels that this was also his fault for letting Hassan die.

RachelK said...

I agree with what Ellen said. Amir's bad memories (things he's done wrong) are catching up to him. He could've prevented a lot of this from happening by standing up for him to make them better friends or Hassan could've come to America with him.

KaleighD said...

I have to dissagree with Nowlans comment about Amir not being a true Afghani and agree with Annie when she says that no matter where he lived or how high up he was in the caste system he was still an afghani. Just because he was never apart of the complications of living in Kabul doesn't mean it wasn't his home.

NowlanS said...

I agree with Ellen in that Amir is not responsible for the killing of Hassan. He should of stould up for Hassan. He should of apologized to Hassan. He should have been nicer to Hassan but he did not kill him. He is just feeling the pain that he never got to apologize to Hassan for the hurt he had caused him and for his cowardice.

meghank said...

It makes sense that Amir is blaming himself for Hassan's death because if he hadn't waited till he was older to even try to make things right again. If Amir had done even the slightest thing different things could have turned out better and Hassan wouldn't have died the way that he did.

elizabeth k said...

I agree with annie and Emma when they say that since Hassan was such a carring person Amir feels like he could have prevented his death if he didnt drive Hassan away after the rape.

samh said...

I think Amir is still dealing with the guilt of what happened to Hassan and how he didn't do anything to help him. I think that now that Hassan is dead, he feels like he has to deal with what happened and he has to face it.

AprilH said...

I agree with Annie. Amir still wishes he could've helped Hassan or prevented what had happened. He keeps thinking about what happened and wishes he never had done what he had done to get Hassan to leave because if he hadn't done that Hassan would be safe with him in America.

RachelK said...

I think Amir's role in his dream was him "killing off" the friendship between him and Hassan. The things that have all happened before between Hassan and Amir have kind of led up to Hassan's killing physically and of their friendship. In Amir's dream when he hears Hassan saying "For you a thousand times over" brings back memories of how loyal of a friend Hassan was to Amir.

Macy said...

I agree with Rachel and Ellen. All the bad things and memories are catching up to him and he is regretting not helping Hassan when he was being raped. And I agree with Jason, when he said the "what if" question is going through his mind.

Allie~J said...

I agree with Jason when he says that maybe Hassan isn't as worried or bothered by the rape than Amir. Because Hassan is so forgiving and Amir isn't.

ddenton76 said...

I think that Amir has guilt about what happened to Hassan because if he would have saved Hassan from Assef then Hassan might be alive

Pye said...

I think the only event that could have changed Hassans death is Hassan attacking the Taliban. Amir being too much of a coward to help Hassan when he was being raped in the ally didn't kill Hassan.

elizabeth k said...

I agree with Sam. Amir is just feeling terrible about Hassans death and now he has to face all of the terrible things he did and that way that he acted and he has to face all of that now.

KaleighD said...

I think that Amir is not really car sick but he is making himself think he's sick because of his guilt feelings and just always thinking about Hassan and what happened to him makes him sick.

allison t said...

I agree with Ellen and Jason that Amir could have done so much differently which would have lead to a difference in Hassan's life/death. Even if he had just changed one thing he could have saved Hassan and changed the outcome of a ton of things that ave happened.

Mark W said...

I agree with Jason because Amir must feel worse about Hassan's rape than Hassan felt. There are a lot of things that could've been different and that may have affected both Hassan's and Amir's future. For instance, Hassan could be safe in America with Amir and his entire family.

Allie~J said...

I agree with Annie that Amir gets sick because he's thinking of his childhood and Hassan and the rape and how he could have saved him or stood up for him. He maybe isn't just car sick but a mix of the guilt and the car.

samh said...

I agree with Kaite. I don't think that Amir is truely sick, I think that he is making himelf sick. It's mental because his guilt is catching up with him. I also agree with Nile that Amir is uncomfortable with himself and when he gets carsick I think it is just a representation of how hwat he did makes him feel.

meghank said...

I think that Amir gets sick when he thinks about the things in his past. The events that he has gone through are so horrifying to him. I think this is mostly because he is horrified with himself and how he reacted to the situations.

elizabeth k said...

I think that Amir left because he is scared of what will happen.

RachelK said...

I think is Amir is becoming sick of himself. He is disgusted by all the things he's done wrong or could've done differently. He knows that only has he hurt himself by living with regrets forever, but he's also hurt Hassan. However, Hassan was such a loyal friend, that he would die for Amir, even though some things Amir did/didn't do were wrong
(Amir messed up). He kinda had this unconditional love for Amir, not holding any grudges.

jamieG said...

Amir is weakened by his past, but he is starting to realize now that it was so long ago. On top of the time that has passed, now Hassan is gone and Amir really sees that he should have done something while Hassan was still here. Maybe now with him gone he will realize that taking care of Hassan’s son will repent the things that he did to him.

allison t said...

Annie says that Amir might not be getting car sick throughout the book, maybe he's just so upset about something that it makes him sick. Like the rape and Hassan's death.

AprilH said...

I think that it is because he gets nervous. Whenever he is in the car he starts to get sick maybe because he was nervous about how much Afghanistan has changed and how dangerous it is now and probably him thinking about what had happened with Hassan. I don't really think he is making himself sick with guilt I think it is just because he is nervous and is scared.

BrianW said...

I think that Amir isn’t really car sick it’s because he is sick of himself and how he let himself down after Hassan moved out and ultimately got murdered. Now by saving Hassan’s son he can redeem himself.

Macy said...

He is definitely making himself sick. He is not just car sick. He is thinking of all the things that have happened to him in the past, and all the things he could have prevented. All of it is coming back to him and it is making his sick.

michellev said...

I agree with Nile that Amir knows if he doesn't go know he will chicken out, and he will become a coward like when Hassan was being raped. Amir knows this is the right thing to so so he can't bail on this.

samh said...

I agree with what Nile said, I think he doesn't want this to be another thing that Amir regrets. He talks about how he almost did this or that but he decided not to, he doesn't want to make this another one of those things that he decides not to do and ends up regretting it.

Allie~J said...

going off of Emmas comment do you think that going back for hassans son will that make up for all that he is in debt for with Hassan?

NowlanS said...

I disagree with Rachel, I believe that Amir being the killer of Hassan in his dream is a representation of how he believes what he has done. That he had killed Hassan by never being there for him or always being a coward. He doesnt believe he physically killed him or was the cause but he believes the awful things he had done are as worse as killing him in the streets

RachelK said...

I think that when Amir goes back to get Hassan's son, he can have a chance to repent, or even more, be like Hassan-loyal and caring. This is another chance for him to start over, to turn himself around, to not mess up again. I think Amir would also work hard to get Hassan's son.

Jake H said...

I think that Amir went to Kabul so soon is that if he doesn't go at that point in time then the he would talk himself out of it. I also think that he wanted to actually do something for Hassan, to pay back for all that Hassan did for him. Amir probably feels so guitly and that this is a way to help himself get over what he had done to Hassan.

meghank said...

I think Amir left as fast as he could for multiple reasons; I think he wanted to leave so that he wouldn't talk himself out of it. I also think that he knew he had to do it in order to feel better about himself but he wanted it to be over as soon as possible as well so he wanted to leave quickly.

Pye said...

I don't think Amir is so much curious about meeting his nephew as he is desperate to make something right for Hassan. Amir has been feeling guilty for Hassan being left in Afghanistan for 20 plus years so he needs to get Sorhab back to a loving family to make ammends with Hassan.

ddenton76 said...

Alli- I think that Amir might feel like it is making up for what happened to Hassan at first but over time the guilt will increase

Macy said...

I agree with George. In Macbeth and in The Kite Runner, both characters don't think before they act. They also kind of abuse their wealth or power or whatever. Their concience is taking over.

samh said...

I agree that this book will turn out to have a positive ending because Amir decides to do the right thing.

Mark W said...

I agree with George because both Macbeth and Amir make life threatening decisions. But Amir is trying to save someone in a dangerous area and Macbeth puts himself in danger by trying to expand his power. Macbeth was also a tradegy, so far The Kite Runner has somewhat been a tradegy.

KaleighD said...

Answering Allie's question,I think that Amir will think that taking care of Hassan's son will make for his debt and guilt feelings but it will only really satisfy his concience.

AprilH said...

I agree with Nile. This is going to help Amir and make him feel better. He doesn't want to regret this and wants to make everything better by helping out Hassan's son. I think this will make Amir feel stronger and better about doing this good deed.

allison t said...

I disagree with George that the book will turn out as a tragedy like Macbeth. I think Amir makes mistakes but he has the drive to make his own decisions without influence, while in Macbeth he made his choices based on the influence of the witches.

elizabeth k said...

I agree with Nile. with the quote on pg 249 relates back to Amir and Hassans relationship. it shows how loving Hassan was but then Amir made it bad.

Jake H said...

Why do you think people join the Taliban knowing what they know about them?

Pye said...

Hosseini brought Amir's mom back into the story because it gives him a good memory of what his mom once was. Hearing about how good of a person his mom waas gives him hope about Sorhab and his trip to Kabul.

Shay N said...

The book wont end in tragedy because Amir is so determined to redeem himself that he will find a way to make things right.

elizabeth k said...

Jake- i think that people either dont know what they are getting into or they are joining out of fear.

alenav said...

I think through all the struggles that Amir went through he finally has something to look up to. I agree with Ellen Amir is no longer completely lost and he can finally being to find himself and who he truly is.

NowlanS said...

I agree with Nile on relating the quote of the poet Hafez,"How seemless seemed love and then came troulbe" with that Amir and Hassan's relationship and how it was playful at first but then it became painful and troublesome. Amir did not have a lot of love for Hassan and didnt think anything of it and when there frienship was tested he reeped the consiquences of his lack of affection and love towards Hassan.

Shay N said...

Its a normal thing for a mother to lover her son so yes i think she loved him even though she didnt really get to meet him.

Pye said...

Yes, I think Amir's mom did love him. She mentions how it makes her nervous to be so happy. She seems to have a great life, rich husband, son on the way, and a great job at the university. She couldn't love Amir obviously because she never met him but she loves the life she had at the time

RachelK said...

I think that Amir's mom did love him. She just didn't have a chance to show it to him. I think she loved him before he was born though. If she hadn't died during delivery, things may have been different between Amir and his father.

Shay N said...

Hassans mom loved both of them but she couldn't meet the requirments of A Afghani wife.

NowlanS said...

I agree with Shay, I do believe that Amir's mother did love Amir even though she did not get to see him ever. She never got to meet him but she still had love and affection for him.

samh said...

I think that Amir's mom loved him even though she didn't get to meet him because its a mothers intuition to love their child even when they're pregnant with them. I think that she had a growing love for Amir even before he was born.

AprilH said...

I think that Amir's mom did love him even though she died giving birth to him because this was her child. I agree with Ellen she was excited and liked the idea of a family.
I think that Hassan's mom was scared or too young to be attached to a child. I also, agree with George when he said that she was scared that someone would find out the truth. Since she messed around with Baba she didn't want to get in trouble.

RachelK said...

I agree with what Shay said. The book won't end in a terrible way. Recently, Amir has become more and mroe determined to make better choices, and to have the chance to start out on a clean slate. I think he can do it.

Jake H said...

I think that Hassan's mom wasn't ready to raise a kid. I think that she was afraid that Ali would find out about the afair between his mom and Baba. So I think that she thought it would be an awkward relationship between the family and that she figured the only way to keep her secret from getting out is to leave and never come back.

BrianW said...

I don’t think she loved Hassan until after she ran away because before she wouldn’t even hold him and after she came back and realized how wrong that was and was trying to redeem herself to Hassan.

Shay N said...

It is never right to buy children! You should love the child and not just try to save the other the children.

Mark W said...

I think that it is important to sell children in order to save others and keep the orphanage open, but it doesn't make it right.

Nicole said...

Shay: I have to disagree with you. It doesn't seem like Hassan's Mother just couldn't meet the responsibility. If that was it, what would be the purpose of her running off with a Singing Group? When it's that specific it seems more like a crisis of being a nobody.
Hassan's Mom probably saw her future as a servant and found it to be horrifying and revolting. She probably had the thought process of "I'm better than this. Why should I give up my life to be a nobody?"

Also Shay:
It is a shame that the Taliban would buy children like that, or that Zaman would sell them. However, had he not, 10 more children would have met that terrible fate. It's sickening, but it would have been worse.
It's like in chess. In the end, you may have to sacrifice something in order to win. Not that this matter is about winning or losing.

Perhaps the writer put that part in as a more solid way for Amir to redeam himself. Protecting Sohrab is one thing, but saving him from the same fate that Hassan had is more.... It's canceling out the action that he didn't do long ago.